recently_folded: Image from HLV Appledore scene (Default)
[personal profile] recently_folded posting in [community profile] post_tumblr_fandom
This was lightly dealt with in [personal profile] greywash's master thread and its comments, but not beyond wondering whether they would have room to expand into a broader social site or whether their code could be used to create one. This thread is to push that idea around further.

Date: 2018-12-06 05:01 pm (UTC)
prettyarbitrary: (Default)
From: [personal profile] prettyarbitrary
This had occurred to me. I think the main issue here is that the code base is old and predicated on some outdated features and performance standards. So to make this feasible, there'd need to be some significant renovation.

Now, I don't know enough specifics about that code base to know how feasible or difficult this would be. But there's some real solid, time-tested stuff in there. And I have wondered before whether it'd be possible--with admittedly probably quite a lot of work--to modernize it without having to tear it apart to the point where you might as well start from scratch.

Then again, currently DW's coding team consists of two people with day jobs. With an infusion of volunteers and maybe money, I don't know what'd be possible but it seems foolish not to investigate it as a possible avenue.

Date: 2018-12-06 11:38 pm (UTC)
oulfis: A teacup next to a plate of scones with clotted cream and preserves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] oulfis
I want to deposit for future reference a link to their post linking to the development discord, inviting people to join in: https://dw-dev.dreamwidth.org/209778.html

It seems like there's some openness to involvement, but not sure what form that would take.

Date: 2018-12-08 10:44 pm (UTC)
elf: Computer chip with location dot (You Are Here)
From: [personal profile] elf
I don't think Dreamwidth could be "that site" without losing a lot of what makes Dreamwidth appealing as an LJ-substitute.

The Google doc being collected for the Pinboard guy (Maciej Ceglowski) lists features that people want for their perfect social site, and reblogging is a big one. While many long-time DW fans don't care about reblogging, everyone who grew up on Facebook, Tumblr, and Twitter is used to that being a major form of interaction.

They also want "likes." I expect that DW could easily add "likes" to posts; adding reblogs is both substantially more code (although LJ does it now, so it might not be too hard to integrate), *and* a major change of the blogging culture.

Setting aside the reblog issue, DW would need:
- Substantially more image storage, and better image upload options. (This is, I believe, being worked on.)
- Easy video embedding at the least, and possibly video hosting (and this is likely to be a killer, because those things get expensive).
- Global tagging of some sort

Date: 2018-12-13 05:21 pm (UTC)
prettyarbitrary: (Default)
From: [personal profile] prettyarbitrary
The most complicated part of reblogging is not the development, but the philosophy. Namely, who takes precedence? Should the creator of the original post always have the right to their content? Or, once it becomes the beginning of a discussion, does it now belong to the rebloggers and participants?

Pillowfort's solution is that the OP always owns the content and can do with it as they like (incidentally, a position supported by the EU's GDPR legislation, which requires 'the right to be forgotten'--aka a user has the right to have their presence erased when they request it).

LJ's solution was to allow a reposter (not a reblog, really, but a repost) to copy the post wholesale and make any changes they wanted, as long as they preserved a link back to the original.

Tumblr struck a compromise: the content of the original post was frozen, but the OP did not have the right to erase or edit reblogs of their content. (Although Tumblr had the capability to do so, because the chain of connection between copies was maintained on the back end.)

But! Tumblr also had a workaround, where if you hid part of your original post under a read-more, reblogs grabbed the read-more as a link and would send viewers back to the original post, which the OP could still edit or delete.

Dreamwidth has simply chosen so far not to implement reblogging functionality, because the users could never really come to a consensus.

Date: 2018-12-13 07:07 pm (UTC)
prettyarbitrary: (Default)
From: [personal profile] prettyarbitrary
I'm not clear on whether Facebook's upcoming policy changes will be rolled out to the properties they own such as Instagram, but in the past they've used that model, which means Instagram would be dead in the water for fandom purposes.

I've participated a bit in Twitter conversations on this subject, but they've mostly surrounded @pearwaldorf's thing, which is mirrored in the other content from/around them. So I'm not a great source for feedback from that side.

But in various places--on Twitter and elsewhere--I have seen a fair bit of fannish pushback AGAINST Twitter as a real fannish platform, and it seems that a lot of people are recognizing it suffers from many of the same problems Tumblr had and also that if Facebook and Tumblr are choosing this path, there's no way Twitter can be trusted not to. A lot of fanartists even are nixing it as a realistic long-term option for hosting their work, due to image compression and some other things--or at the very least are expressing frustration with it as inadequate but the best option they currently have.

Date: 2018-12-09 03:46 pm (UTC)
alchemia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alchemia
I definitely do not want anyone reblogging my stuff. As long as stuff like that is OPTIONAL, and can be turned off though, I think DW is really the best option for fandom right now- its stable, there's already community established, they welcome volunteers, they welcome fandom etc.

Date: 2018-12-09 09:56 pm (UTC)
lurea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lurea
If likes and reblogs are the main things holding people back from migrating to Dreamwidth, then I would love to see those addressed. I still trust that an explicitly-fannish site like Dreamwidth is going to always be better than a corporate site. Honestly, I don't believe that if Pillowfort gets a few hundred thousand users and someone (yahoo) offers to buy it for 5 billion that the founders are going to nobly refuse.

If LiveJournal can re-blog, then I would tend to think that it could be added to Dreamwidth. Could someone ask the DW staff?

Date: 2018-12-09 10:51 pm (UTC)
lurea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lurea
Oh! That's awesome to know! Thanks for sharing it--I have sent money and am waiting for a key, so I planned to check it out personally, but haven't gotten the chance yet.

Date: 2018-12-11 08:51 am (UTC)
satsuma: Ace flag overlayed over the bi flag to make some hella gay plaid (Default)
From: [personal profile] satsuma
They’ve said they’re open to hosting ads, which means they’re open to negotiating with advertisers. So even if they never sell, there’s still a decent chance that the ad money puts them in a bad position re:fans and fandom

Date: 2018-12-09 10:50 pm (UTC)
katherine: Whiskery catfish, papercutting of dark paper with cream background (catfish papercut)
From: [personal profile] katherine
As it so happens, [staff profile] denise mentioned reblogging in a comment on the News post earlier this month.

Date: 2018-12-11 08:54 am (UTC)
satsuma: Ace flag overlayed over the bi flag to make some hella gay plaid (Default)
From: [personal profile] satsuma
I think the only way to answer this one is to ask them. We’re not the ones who’ve been working with the code for twenty years, so we’re not the ones who know how much work it would take to modernize it

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Some discussion space for where we go next.

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